Challaine (00:32)
Welcome everyone to today's episode of Let's Have a Chat. Just having a chat already before we hit record with Heather Murphy and she is a somatic and expressive arts coach for moms and is a podcast host herself of Love of Self, which is about mental health and manifestation in motherhood. Heather, thank you so much for being here and sharing your time with me today. We, I know have a lot to discuss.
Heather Murphy (00:55)
Yeah, thank you so much for having me today. I'm really honored to be here.
Challaine (00:59)
Absolutely. Okay, manifestation in motherhood. I think this is so important and I have, as many of my listeners know, a 16-year-old, a 13-year-old, a 3-year-old and a 2-year-old. So, huge gap between the, we call them the bigs and the littles. So, huge gap. And when I first had, like when I had the bigs when they were little, it was like life was happening to me or like, but not for me.
Right? And I was just like doing the bump and grind the day to day, blah, blah. And now that I'm older and have more experience, maybe because of having the two children prior, I'm like at such peace and ease and like, there's not like this struggle all the time. And I hope that by the end of this conversation, we can give hope to new moms, younger moms.
on how to really navigate being a parent and being a mother while also chasing your own dreams and being fulfilled and chasing your own goals and finding harmony. I don't like to say balance because it's never going to be 50-50, but finding harmony as a mother and a goal getter. So how do we...
Where do we start? Like if you were to talk to my younger self or even your younger self because I'm assuming your work stems from your younger self or a few years ago that we generally turn our pain into our purpose and passion. What would you tell your younger self or younger Shalane having a baby at 23 like still trying to figure out my own life?
Heather Murphy (02:50)
Yeah, wow, yes. You said so many wonderful things there. Well, usually the first thing I touch on with people is that what we want to, well, first, let me just say, I want to acknowledge what you said about life. Sometimes we feel like life is happening to us. And I feel like especially when we're young and new moms and everything, that's kind of how we're raised, right? maybe that it's just, well, this is the lot you were, yeah.
Challaine (02:54)
Ha! Woo!
You just kind of show up and like,
Heather Murphy (03:19)
This
Challaine (03:19)
yeah.
Heather Murphy (03:20)
is the life you were given. These are the cards. There's so many limiting beliefs that were not intentionally put on this, but it's just... Yeah, right.
Challaine (03:28)
And you started saying it. You said, these are the cards that we've been dealt. Right? Like
if that gets ingrained in us, if we're constantly being told these are the cards that we've been dealt, then okay, well, this is just my life. There's no chance for change for me because these are the cards I've been dealt. Like just live with it.
Heather Murphy (03:46)
Yeah, right. Exactly. Like, you don't even know what you don't know. And so one thing about that is definitely being expanded, like listening to podcasts like this, so you can hear other people's stories and be like, well, if they can do that, then I can do that too. And that was a big thing for me when I had my daughter, literally, she was six days old. And I was like, holy shit, like,
I still want to be an artist and like make art and like have a career and all this stuff. I like really freaked out and I apologize. I don't remember if they're swearing aloud on this podcast, but okay. Okay. Cool. and I called my university cause I had dropped out of school. had like a traumatic thing happen and I like left school like six weeks before graduation. and if we want to open that can of worms we can, but so.
Challaine (04:20)
Totally, yeah, can f-bomb away, f-bomb away, it's all good.
Can we now,
because that's a huge moment. You dropped out of school six weeks prior to graduation. Were you going for a degree or? Okay.
Heather Murphy (04:44)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
It was yeah, I was
studying. I was so I studied literature and film and then also did fine arts printmaking. So I kind of like switched degrees towards the end but into like a fine arts degree. And I was living a very chaotic lifestyle already as a student. I was running a cleaning business. I was working as an exotic dancer on the weekends.
I was drinking every day and I went through, well first let me back up. I was sexually assaulted and then I broke up with my boyfriend, moved to another city and started a new life. so yeah, sorry, I guess that's still kind of, yeah. So I'm a little bit.
Challaine (05:43)
I'm sorry. No, that's fine.
Heather Murphy (05:49)
I guess stuck in that, sorry. That happened and I feel like I needed to start this new life and I did. So I went on to like do other things like finding new jobs and stuff like that, healthier work environments. Really was still struggling with drinking actually for a long time until I got pregnant. Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah.
Challaine (06:06)
Yeah.
I get it.
Heather Murphy (06:17)
you know, and there I met my husband, my now husband and everything. so I was, but I was always like, after this traumatic event happened, and I just want to acknowledge like that pause that I just experienced was just like me still working through that. Right.
Challaine (06:34)
Absolutely, and
I want to commend you for that because healing can show up in these conversations. It can show up in reliving and talking about it and going back there. mean, to talk about the ugly stuff, right? If we don't talk about it and get it out and share, we end up having a visceral...
reaction like long term that sometimes we don't even notice anymore, right? Because we're keeping that in. And that's what I just love about this podcast. Like I talk about me being a sloppy drunk. I talk about my molestation and all the trauma shit with my mother and blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's so cathartic and therapeutic without actually going to therapy and just sitting in those times. Right? So if it comes up in conversation and
we talk about it, there's another release. There's another release. So I commend you for sharing that with me and our listeners. So thank you.
Heather Murphy (07:38)
Yeah, thank
you for that. I think you're so right. you know, I'm studying to be an expressive arts therapist right now. And one of the things that we use is narrative art therapy, and talking about your story, and having other people say, Yeah, I had that happen to me too, really solidifies what you experience and the reality of the trauma that lives in your body. So it is important to talk about these things. And
move through it and integrate with what happened and you're in a somatic wave. Yeah.
Challaine (08:12)
I love that keyword right there, moving through, right?
Like it's constantly like moving forward, moving through, like just looking ahead, right? So that's, yeah, that's a keyword moving through for sure.
Heather Murphy (08:23)
Yeah.
Moving through, yeah, so for me, when I had this big thing happen, I really started, I was reading the seven habits of highly-affected people. I just went down the personal development rabbit hole while still struggling with drinking. I was definitely more of a binge drinker, where I'd be like, I'm gonna get really healthy, and I would workout every day and eat really healthy, and then I would get wasted every night. yeah. Yes.
Challaine (08:34)
Yeah.
Yeah, like justifying it, right? Well, I did good so I can do this. Yeah.
Heather Murphy (08:56)
And but yeah, getting pregnant was the most beautifully awakening thing. And I know that's not everyone's experience. That was just mine. But it was this thing where I was like, my God, I got to get my shit together. I got to be like a good role model for this little girl. And I, you know, called the school and I tried to immediately like go back to school with a newborn. That did not work out. So I like.
Challaine (09:22)
goodness because you this
is post like you had quit six weeks prior to finishing
Heather Murphy (09:28)
Yeah, and that was a few years prior to having my daughter. Yeah, like two years prior to having her. So I'd already been out of school for like two years. So I was like, okay, I'm going to try to go back. And I was living in a different city at this point too. So I was like, and we didn't have like online options as much back then either. So totally like fell on my face, like could not keep up. Obviously I'm up all night nursing, all that stuff, you know, new motherhood, but.
Challaine (09:30)
Okay. Yeah.
Heather Murphy (09:58)
I just kept going. did other things. started this YouTube channel where I was like, I'm going to have a YouTube channel where I'm showing people that I am still practicing my art. And I did. was doing these videos where I'm like, OK, she's got a nap, so I'm going to make some art. And they would show me making some art or whatever. And that was really challenging to keep up with. Yeah. And I'm continuing down my personal growth.
journey and everything as I'm doing all of this. And I like, really started to get into this idea of sharing how I was healing. And so I started this blog called Keep It Together Heather. And it was just me sharing like, yeah, like, keep it. That's, that's totally what it was all about. Like, because I still felt like I'm not an adult, I don't have it together. Like, why that was like, I was really hard on myself.
Challaine (10:40)
that. Just keep, come on, keep it together, Heather. You got this. Keep it together. Keep it cool. That's good. Yeah.
Let's be honest though,
does anybody really have it together? Like the big picture, what is it together? What does that even mean or what does that look like? Because if change is the only constant life and we're like constantly trying to grow and change, you can't keep it all together because you're just gonna ultimately like, and hopefully expand out of that, right? And then you're gonna learn new things and.
Heather Murphy (11:04)
Yeah.
Challaine (11:18)
You're gonna feel lost again and then shit I gotta keep it together and then you're gonna grow. Read another book, listen to another podcast, get some ideas. So I think keeping it together is an unrealistic expectation. Unless you can prove me wrong, let me know how the fuck you're keeping it together.
Heather Murphy (11:38)
Especially, yeah, like in this day and age, I think it's just like, there's so much noise, you know, and to really like get back to your initial question that you asked about like new moms and everything. I think that it really does come down to nervous system regulation. Can you access a feeling of calm and safety in your body? And I think that just a few minutes of nervous system regulation practice every day could
create a compound effect within your nervous system so that when you don't have it together, because you won't have it together, no one has it together, like things are constantly, like you said, nothing is ever in balance. It's like a dance. Life is a dance where you're like, okay, I'm gonna step over here and then I gotta move over here. And you're kind of dancing with life and the universe to kind of navigate the things that are.
being thrown at you all the time. Like, yeah, you can find a rhythm and a routine and that's beautiful, but it's going to be changing based on like right now or still in winter. Like I just want to hide in the cave, but in a couple of weeks here, I'm going to be much more social than I have been. Exactly. Exactly.
Challaine (12:42)
Totally.
Tank tops and flip flops, yeah. I love that
you said dance. So like if we can change our mindset of like this power struggle just back and forth to just like dancing and flowing, like look, it's the same movement, right? Power struggle back and forth or just dancing and flowing. It's the exact same thing, but if we can reframe our thoughts and opinions on what is actually happening for us, not to us.
Heather Murphy (13:05)
Yes.
Challaine (13:16)
then we can hopefully navigate the dance.
Heather Murphy (13:21)
Yeah, and like to touch on what you just said again with that life is happening for you. I know sometimes it may feel like that's just so wrong. Like I had all these horrible things happen to me. X, Y, Z, whatever the story in that story. It is about turning your pain into purpose. Not always. I don't mean you have to go like take your pain and start a business. I just mean that like there is like a fire and there is
Challaine (13:45)
Yeah.
Heather Murphy (13:50)
fire and there is like energy behind that, that you could be the change in the world that we need because of what happened to you. Like we all have things that happen to us to one degree or another. And our stories are what help each other learn and grow. So.
Challaine (14:10)
And it doesn't have
to be like this massive change in the world that you're talking about, like solving world hunger or pick something, right? It can be change in the world, something that you do or you say or your story or your experience to just change one person. That's change in the world. And in my, in my eyes, like I've gotten emails and Instagram messages and Facebook messages of just thank you.
Heather Murphy (14:16)
Totally. We don't have to be Mother of a True Soil yet. Yes.
Yeah.
Challaine (14:40)
Like thank you for your book, thank you for sharing your story. Like we keep going back to this about sharing stories. And this is the reality and the truth of it of how important it is. And I'm not doing this to get the accolades and hoping I'm gonna get messages of recognition. But it's just a wonderful surprise to know that my pain turning into my purpose and passion is helping people to reframe, to quit drinking, to...
start their own business to start their own manifestation. I'm like, holy shit, like that's kind of cool. This is this is what it's about like being of service and giving.
Heather Murphy (15:20)
Yeah, I really believe that we all have this authentic coding, let's say, like a computer, that each one of us has these specific energetic elements that we bring to this experience on Earth. Yes, I'm going to, yes. And like that, the more we can lean into that, the more we can have this positive experience with life.
Challaine (15:33)
Give me the woo woo. Give me the crazy. I love this. I love it.
Heather Murphy (15:50)
create all the synchronicities, create the magic, the more we can just integrate with who we are, the dark stuff, the shadow and the light stuff. We have to be all that we are.
Challaine (16:03)
And I think trusting, this can be hard, is trusting our intuition, right? And I think maybe that's what you mean is by like looking in and trusting ourselves and being authentic and get curious. If something like in you is like sticky and uncomfortable, well get curious about that because what you're feeling is valid. That's important and it's why you are where you are in that moment.
And it's okay to question yourself and tap into, hey, what's really going on here? And I personally believe there's a solution to every problem. So if you feel that you're having a problem, you're looking inside and, you're getting angry or like, what is the source of that? You know, like, how can we, what is the solution? If we can figure out what is actually going on, then there's generally a solution.
Heather Murphy (16:33)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Challaine (17:01)
on the other side, but you have to dig in. have to like go through these sticky moments and in order to get out of the sticky moments, you know?
Heather Murphy (17:10)
Yeah,
yeah, absolutely. And I think about, you know, diving into ourselves in that way. It doesn't always have to be like really hard. It can be at first. I feel like I feel like that was my experience. You know, I feel like when I started my self love, so personal development journey, it was I was already a shit show. So it was already painful. So like I might as well just like dig into like these triggers and these activations that are happening.
Challaine (17:31)
Yeah.
Heather Murphy (17:39)
Like, why am I drinking every day? You know, why am I emotionally struggling?
Challaine (17:43)
Did you ever get
an answer to that question? Why am I drinking every day? Because this podcast, when I originally started it, was based on sobriety, just off of my journey. So I know a lot of our listeners still struggle or did struggle with alcohol and maybe don't have that answer of why was I drinking every day? Did that ever come up for you, the answer?
Heather Murphy (17:48)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
You know, I don't have like a specific memory, but I can say just what comes to mind is, you know, going through traumatic experiences for sure. It was interesting after my experience with sexual assault, how much stuff came up in my childhood, actually experiencing molestation as well, that I had completely blacked out and
Challaine (18:15)
you
Heather Murphy (18:36)
I just didn't have like a very large window of tolerance for much of anything. My stress levels were so high because I found solace through either like overworking and then just drinking every night. So yeah, exactly. was just, I could not sit in silence. I mean, initially my gateway into like self care was through going to a bit.
Challaine (18:52)
Keeping busy, keeping your brain occupied.
Heather Murphy (19:03)
Buddhist temple because I was in one of like the worst depressions of my life. I still think about people who are like, can't sit and meditate. And what I would say to them is to consider doing somatic practicing, like, move your body. Yes. So somatic is just a word that means body, basically. Yeah. So it's body based practices that involve
Challaine (19:18)
What is somatic practice? What is somatic? Yeah, you tap into that.
Easy peasy, all right.
Heather Murphy (19:31)
that are focused on nervous system regulation. There's many practices like polyvagal theory. know, putting yourself in like, you know, different states so that you are in that rest and relaxed state versus fight or flight or freeze or fawn. And so, fawning is, yeah, so it's like you think of a deer, so it's a lot of people pleasing.
Challaine (19:54)
I've never heard that one. What's Fon? I've never heard that.
Heather Murphy (20:01)
just kind of like shut down, quiet, not frozen, but just like, okay, like whatever would be good for you. You know, I just think of like the people who they saw fawn. It's like, think of like a little deer, you know, that's just like, sure. and so people, a lot of, think women relate to that one, the fawning that happens, the people placing, cause you're like, like I just saw my mother. Yeah.
Challaine (20:15)
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
I've never heard that term.
Heather Murphy (20:30)
Yeah, I think it happens with family dynamics and with work environments, especially for women. I think the fawning happens. Yeah.
Challaine (20:40)
And in relationships, a
couple of relationships. Yeah.
Heather Murphy (20:46)
Couples, yeah, right.
Yes, 1000%. And especially as a new mom, you want to do so much. you're like, only I know how, or you're not even, you may not be consciously thinking these thoughts either, but you just feel so like protective of your baby and you kind of like put so much pressure on yourself to do it all and to do it all perfectly. And I think that can be a sign of fawning as well. It's just like.
got this like I'm fine. Everything's great.
Challaine (21:16)
Yeah.
And it's okay for it not to be okay. Like we put such high expectations and pressures on ourselves to impress, I don't know who, but when we can get to a point of no is a complete sentence and it's okay to not be okay.
Heather Murphy (21:24)
Yeah, absolutely.
Challaine (21:44)
Because when we can tap into that, that is tapping into ourselves and our authenticity and our intuition to recognize, I'm not okay. I need some healing here. Rather than fawning and being like, yeah, I got this, yep. When really you don't because you can only not got this by yourself for so long until it starts to like ripple out into your life.
Heather Murphy (22:01)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Right, when like a simple conversation doesn't have to mean, you know, I think people think like, I'm afraid of conflict. You I still struggle with conflict myself. We all kind of do to some degree or another, by just simply being like, like, especially when I got into somatics, I started being like, to my husband, I would be like, I am like having a huge lump in my throat right now. And I'm...
like really upset about something and I don't know what it is, but I think I just need to like go to the bedroom alone for 15 minutes or something, you know? So like instead of slamming cupboards, you know, or yeah, that might be like that fight, but like, or fawning and just being like, sure, like I'll, I'll get dinner even though like I'm at capacity and I actually need support and to take time.
Challaine (22:49)
Right?
I love that you
had that conversation with your partner. I think that's so important. And I've been listening to lot of Tony Robbins lately and he just did a three day virtual live summit and he talks about communication with your partner and talking about the physical and how to avoid conflict is what the conversation was about.
Heather Murphy (23:08)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Challaine (23:32)
but talking about the physical, like what you're feeling in your body. Like my heart is racing faster, I've got knots in my stomach and this is making me feel anxious or sad or angry. And so I love that you actually had this conversation with your person and was like, this is what I'm feeling. I need to, I need to go. Like I can't be a part of this space right now, but.
Heather Murphy (23:50)
Mm-hmm.
Challaine (24:00)
it seems like you're willing to like take the time and when I'm ready, I'll come back and we can continue this.
Heather Murphy (24:00)
Yeah.
Yes, and that's like a whole can of worms in itself because then you get into dynamics where it's like, okay, now that person is triggered because they feel abandoned because you left the room, even though you're not actually leaving the relationship. So it gets really like complicated. But as you continue practicing this self-awareness, this somatic awareness, it is important to say, I don't know what the words are that I need to say right now, but I'm having this experience in my body right now. And is it
Challaine (24:17)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Heather Murphy (24:36)
Does it work for our family situation right now if I go regulate, do some breath work, do some dancing movement, whatever you need, listen to a song or something just to bring yourself back to homeostasis and safety in your body? Because you cannot have a cognitive rational thought when your brain is working back here at the bottom in your primal, I'm scared, things are not safe mode.
Challaine (24:59)
you
Yeah, I love how you said, I'm feeling this and I don't know what it is.
I love that. That's really, yeah, that's really eye-opening. I call them brain wow moments. I think we get like, or can get so wrapped up in the moment and the instant and the event, or even not an event, because sometimes like we can get triggered by something and really not know what the hell we're getting triggered over, but know that it's having this visceral internal effect.
Heather Murphy (25:16)
because it's okay to not know what it is.
Challaine (25:44)
So to say something's happening to me right now and I can't really grasp it, I need to like go figure out my shit. That's powerful. That's really.
Heather Murphy (25:53)
Yeah, yeah.
It is, it's really empowering, I think, for people to just take ownership of that and be like, I'm having this experience. I would like to take care of me. And that will be good for all of the family or, you know, whether you have family or not, but for the people in the situation, you know, to that's, that's why I named my podcast for the love self because I'm like, I feel like if we take care of ourselves, it's better for everyone.
And not to the degree where you're completely selfish, but just to the degree that it's within your authentic boundaries and lifestyle that you want to live.
Challaine (26:30)
Absolutely. And if you don't have a dollar,
if you don't have a dollar, you can't give a dollar. Right? So if you don't have peace and calm, you can't give peace and calm. If you don't have regulation, you can't like, we're all energy, you can't vibrate regulation and peace and calm within the household if you're fucking raging inside.
Heather Murphy (26:34)
Right, exactly.
Exactly.
Totally. And I love that you just touched on that because that just totally makes me think of what, you know, we, so many of us have probably learned from Abraham Hicks, right? You just, you are getting the, your reality is just a mirror. It's just showing you what lives within you. And so if you're being triggered by something, consider that a little gift, a little nugget of something for you to hold and nurture and take care of.
there's a part of you, yeah, that curiosity. It's so important to be like, wow, what was that? Like, even literally, yeah, I think about like, there's this one woman I met this last year who works with, she's like a vocal coach, and it goes much deeper than that because it's almost like she can help you understand why like certain tones and pitches of other people's voices can trigger you. So, like even stuff like that where you're like, I can't listen to this because of my voice or something.
Challaine (27:17)
curious about.
Where did that come from?
That's so... yeah.
Heather Murphy (27:47)
It could be because it sounds like your mother. Like, who knows, you know?
Challaine (27:49)
Totally, totally.
That's interesting that you say that because I've always had like RBF, resting bitch face, right? And then, I don't know, like even I remember in high school teachers would, I'd be walking down the hall and teachers would be like, smile, Shalane. I'm like, I'm fine. Like I just have RBF, but my husband will be like, I'll say something and it totally throws him off and...
Heather Murphy (28:10)
Yeah.
Challaine (28:18)
He's like, well, it's your tone. I'm like, well, how else, how else can I say, can you take out the garbage? Like I'm not being bitchy, right? Like I really, can you take out the garbage? Like, what am I supposed to say? So for you to say that about tones being triggering to people, it's tough when you're the one giving the tone. And I mean, he tells me enough that obviously I should
Heather Murphy (28:30)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Challaine (28:46)
maybe pick up on it now. So this conversation is important for me, especially so that I can change my tone. Like, you know what I mean?
Heather Murphy (28:56)
Yeah. Well, I do. And I would
also say that's something for him to dig in. That's his responsibility. Because not to say that, you know, it's not worth you being curious about like, what is that? What am I saying in a way that like, am I am I actually resentful when he doesn't do it? And I have to ask him to do it? You know, whatever that is. So like, be curious about that, for sure. But if it's
Challaine (29:09)
for sure.
Heather Murphy (29:22)
something outside of yourself you don't have control over the way other people speak.
Challaine (29:26)
And it's interesting
and I don't want to be like, have my ego taking like the front seat in this, but I'm like, I really don't know how else to say it. Like I'm just, it was just a conversation, right? And.
Heather Murphy (29:38)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Challaine (29:41)
Yeah, I'm
gonna have him hopefully listen to this podcast and be like, listen to what you just said of what's triggering in that tone. And then like, he'll say something and then I'll be like, well it was your tone and I'm just like doing it in spite, but I really don't care how he said it, you know? Like I'm not that triggered, I guess, if that makes sense. So yeah, my goodness.
Heather Murphy (29:46)
Yeah.
Totally.
Yeah, yes. We
use a lot of humor, not even intentionally. I think it's just naturally mine and my husband's personalities, but he definitely isn't as triggered by things either. think I'm more like, it's the way, I'm like the opposite. It's the way I'm the husband. And that's why I feel like I can say like, I've had to like work on stuff because for me, it's like, it reminds me of like this person in my past or whatever. so
Challaine (30:20)
So you're my husband? Yeah, okay. Yeah.
Heather Murphy (30:33)
It makes me feel like you're trying to control me. So whatever, that's for him to explore, but that was kind of
Challaine (30:41)
That's interesting. I'm going to... So the
next time he says that, it's your tone. I'm to be like, how was that triggering for you? That is going to throw him off, but he's going to pause because he's really into like, he... Like communication and growth of our relationship and like he puts our relationship number one and top priority, which is phenomenal. And I love him so much for that.
Heather Murphy (30:47)
Yeah.
Yeah.
yeah.
That's amazing. Yeah.
Challaine (31:09)
So he's open to these ideas, right? So if I say to him after I do my tone, why was that triggering for you? Like help me understand. He's gonna be like, whoa. But I know that he's gonna look in and be like, hmm, that's, yeah.
Heather Murphy (31:20)
Yeah, yeah.
And even
further, I would invite you to say, what does this remind you of right now? When, where are we in time? Because it probably is like, oh, I remember when, I'm just using a theoretical, but like my mom said it to me this way. I would say mom and dad, not to blame mom and dads for everything, but yeah, it's like, it's just so interesting. Cause it's like, our brains don't understand time, truly. So.
Challaine (31:43)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Heather Murphy (31:57)
we are living out these, this whole other conversation. anyway, it's, but long story long, it's good to be curious about ourselves. Why did that town trigger me? Like all these little things like, yeah.
Challaine (31:57)
That's a whole other conversation, isn't it?
And you know, it could have been
like, maybe I used that tone so much while we were drinking together, like we drank together for seven years, right? So maybe that's like triggering to him because I was a nasty bitch. I just was, right? So maybe, yeah, that's interesting.
Heather Murphy (32:24)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah,
something like it sounds like you have a beautiful relationship where you guys can talk about these things really openly. And I think that's a really special thing. I feel like more and more people are trying to like learn how to be in a healthy relationship. And it's like, just like put your like put your crap on the table and be like, this is what's happening for me. And it's not about you like.
Challaine (32:58)
Totally.
Yes, yes, it's not about you. And I say that to John a lot of the time. It's yeah, just like point blank. It's not about you. Like don't take it so personally. This is what I'm going through. It's not an attack on you. And I say it all the time. Communication is key. Whether it is in a romantic relationship, whether it's a relationship with your children, whether it's a relationship with your coworkers.
Heather Murphy (33:02)
you know, so.
Challaine (33:32)
If the communication isn't there, then there's miscommunication and people are not getting what you're putting out because you're not really putting out what you should be putting out. It's kind of like filtered because you're not being your authentic self.
Heather Murphy (33:49)
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. I know. Yeah.
Challaine (33:56)
I gotta ask you, did
you like go to China or something for this Buddhist thing?
Heather Murphy (34:02)
No.
Challaine (34:03)
Because that's like, that's my thing. I'm like, I'd
love to like go meet the monks and like go in this temple and like just be by myself. And I'm like, okay, Shalane, you got four kids, you got two businesses, you got podcasts, like you got all the things. Now probably isn't a good time to go to China for two months and hang out with monks, right? So if you didn't go there, then that means there's hope for us to go to a temple locally. Like that didn't even cross my mind.
Heather Murphy (34:09)
you
Yes.
Cutting.
Yeah, I mean, depending on where you live. I think that even just now with the online world, it's like you can access so many, I don't even know. I don't really practice meditation in that sense anymore. Because I focus all on somatics at this point, I have found it to be more effective for me. I think there is a beauty to meditation and I definitely...
hope to go to like a, what's it called? There's the like 10 day silent meditation retreat. I'm drawing a blank, but you know, I think that there is a beauty.
Challaine (35:14)
silence for
10 days, that just like...
Heather Murphy (35:17)
Right. Especially as a mom, right? But yes, exactly. Let's be real. Are you going to have the opportunity to do that anytime soon? I'm not sure. It depends on a lot of things. Yeah.
Challaine (35:29)
So like, but this is important though, because we
always say like self-care isn't selfish, but I think there's like a broad range of where it can be selfish, right? Like, yes, self-care is so important and no, it's not about just taking a poop by yourself, right? Or having a bath and 15 minutes to read a book, but like in the tub, but to really like to go across the world by yourself, not be present and...
Heather Murphy (35:40)
Yes.
Challaine (35:59)
like take off for six weeks or three, whatever. think, hopefully I don't get scolded for this, for me, I think that might be a little bit selfish to do that, right? Because especially in my household, like I'm the mom, I'm like, the centerpiece on the table, right? So to just completely remove myself, like I can work on myself in other ways.
with my podcast, with my journaling, with my meditation, going for walks, going to the gym, eating healthy. Like this is self-care, right? So as much as I would love to go to a temple on the other side of the world, we do have to be realistic with where we can draw the line, temporary line, for self-care. just no right now doesn't mean no forever.
Heather Murphy (36:57)
Exactly. And that's what it is. Like right now I'm really catering my work towards self care can be just a few minutes every day, maybe throughout the day. I had this joke that I was like, every mom needs two 10s and a 30. Right? Cause that's what you get legally for a job. And so I just think about like, especially depending on what age you're in, like my daughter is eight. So she's at school a day. get, I have like,
A lot of time, like I work from home, I go to school in a hybrid program. So I'm at home, I make a beer a lot. I take breaks, I go do some breath work, I go do this, whatever. So I.
Challaine (37:33)
What do you feel immediately
after, okay, what do you feel before, during, and after your breath work time?
Heather Murphy (37:44)
Okay, so that kind of depends on what I'm moving through. But yeah, so let's take for example, I had a recent situation where I was extremely angry and activated. And I was really, so it was one of the, And I, well, first I took it back because honestly,
Challaine (37:47)
Okay.
I'm so fucking pissed right now. Yeah, one of those, uh-huh.
Heather Murphy (38:09)
I will say that sometimes I resist the work too. Like I'm like, I don't want to go do breath work. Because sometimes breath work is uncomfortable because just moving all this energy through your body. And you like, you have to feel it to heal it. So sometimes doing breath work can make you feel it. You gotta, you gotta feel it to heal it. So true. But that's where somatics can be supportive.
Challaine (38:14)
for sure.
Say that again for those in the back.
So true, so true.
Heather Murphy (38:38)
using breathwork, using movement, using sound. When I say use sound, mean that you can literally use your voice or you can listen to music as a therapeutic.
Challaine (38:46)
What about,
like the binaural beats? Are you into that? That's like super trendy.
Heather Murphy (38:50)
Yeah, I like those.
Yeah, that's great. Like, I've found that in some recordings like breathwork recordings, where people use like pineal record beats in their recordings. And I've tried to find them, you know, to utilize I like don't know how to make music in that way. I don't know how to make pineal beats. But yeah, I think that it's like bilaterally stimulating to the brain. So it can be relaxing.
Challaine (39:09)
Of course.
Heather Murphy (39:18)
and help calm you. But yeah, think that in terms of like, so let's say you're like super activated. Starting can feel tedious. And I think that's where, but even just five minutes, three minutes of breath work can completely shift to your state of being so that you're not just sitting right in there in this do you can like, you've expanded your window of tolerance by
allowing your body the ability to be with the somatic experience of those emotions.
Challaine (39:52)
think that can be with many things though,
just stepping into the gym or like, right? With anything new or something you don't really want to do, but you know it has benefit, but you got to do it, right? Like it's just taking that action and just doing it.
Heather Murphy (39:59)
Exactly.
Yeah, yeah.
Just doing it. But that is a big reason why like, when I talk to moms or bring people are coming into my world and my community, I'm like, I want to make this as easy as possible, at least to start. If you want to jump into like, longer sessions and stuff, do that. But when people are just like, like when I started learning breathwork, I was like, I hate this. This is awful. I'm feeling all these feelings.
I'm like, my mouth is dry, I hate this. And eventually I started to, the reason I actually really started getting into breath work was because my biological father had died and then two years had, like I felt nothing. And then two years had passed and all of a I was like feeling a lot of grief about it. So I didn't know what to do with it. I was like really angry, you all the normal things you feel with grief, especially with like an absent parent. And I...
Challaine (41:02)
Yeah.
Heather Murphy (41:05)
I just didn't know what to do with all these feelings and I was just like, he's not even here, I can't even yell at him.
Challaine (41:09)
And yeah, yeah, and two years later, like that's, that's a long time, two years. And then all
of a sudden you're like, holy shit, what do do? I was okay. I was good. Why do I need this? Why is this happening to me?
Heather Murphy (41:17)
I'm grieving now. It was.
It totally was that experience. And so, yeah, I really started leaning into breath work. And yeah, I feel like after each session, you just feel a little bit, you know, just a little lighter, like a little less. You just take the backpack off and stop carrying around so much stuff.
So it really does release.
Challaine (41:47)
And maybe not even like
the whole backpack, like take out a shoe, take out a can, right?
Heather Murphy (41:52)
Yeah. And
that's where those short little breath work sessions are so supportive and it's a compound effect over time if you can just have a little bit of, you know, somatic experience like that in your practice every day. I mean, if you have an hour to scroll on your phone, you have five minutes to do breath work, you know? So.
Challaine (42:11)
I've
got teenagers and my daughter just, she's, we were talking about this earlier. She just left from Calgary to go to Quebec today. And she's been off her phone for over a week. Just the addiction to the TikTok. And I go to bed before her. She's 13, she's talking to her friends, whatever. And I had no fucking idea. Nine hours a day scrolling of screen time. I'm like, mom fail number one, but number two,
You only know what you know. And like I was just like dumbfounded. And so I deleted the TikTok off her phone. She needs my permission to get it back. Not happening. And she was a completely different person after she went through the withdrawal, which is scary. She was like two, almost two days of just like still just kind of hermetic catching up on sleep. And
Heather Murphy (43:10)
Okay.
Challaine (43:11)
Then once those two days had passed, she was like social. She was hanging out with her little brother and sister and just being kind, right? And like just not inundated with all this crap and expectations and being perfect and tight booties and skinny bellies and like big boobs and all this. Like she's seeing all this stuff. And now in hindsight, I always say it's 2020.
Heather Murphy (43:21)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Challaine (43:41)
she would come to me and like show me her belly and I'm like you're beautiful you're beautiful there's nothing like you're perfect right and I don't know where I was going with this but I don't yeah if yeah if we have the time if we have the time to to scroll we have the time to take the time yeah
Heather Murphy (43:45)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Scrolling, yeah, it's like, is it serving us or? Yeah. Yeah.
self care, whatever
you need, you know, it's a really, it is, it's like you said, it's like a discipline. It's like going to the gym, it's like eating the right food, it's for your body, whatever that is. But yeah, it's, is, it gets to be simple too. Like literally, you know, I'm studying expressive arts and I have, can't find it right now because I just got back from my grad school intensive, which was out of town, but.
Yeah, I have this little like tiny journal and I literally just like scribble in it. I'm not a fine artist anymore. I don't do that. Like I used to try to prove myself and make really fine art. But now I just make what I call crappy art because it's an extension of my expression. When I'm angry, I can scribble on it like, yes, I love that. my God. My new catchphrase. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like.
Challaine (44:48)
If crappy makes you happy, you're crappy happy. There you go. This is my crappy happy stuff. Yeah.
Heather Murphy (44:59)
Allowing yourself to, you know, know a lot of women like to do like color and coloring books. There's so many cool coloring books now, like even that. It's just like, find something that is nourishing you. You mentioned earlier in podcasts and like being at a more peaceful place in your life. And I think that is something that mothers need to really think about, like what is going to create peace in your home, in your life?
being like for me a value sounds like for you too is like being family focused. So yeah, like I'm not gonna go to a Buddhist temple for six months, like whatever like that's not, that would be too extreme. But when we think about the idea of being family focused is making sure that like, okay, so like, mom has this goal of like, I'm finishing a master's degree right now. Dad's building a business too.
My daughter Rose is in a Spanish immersion school. So we're trying to keep up with that, you know? So what does our after school routine look like? That has been like a big one for us as well. Speaking of screens, like we've cut off YouTube because same, same thing. was just like, this is not healthy. like, I'm not trying to throw shade to parents that do utilize that. You know, you, it's about you creating life you want.
Challaine (46:09)
Yeah, it's...
Sometimes
the TV, let's be honest, is a fantastic babysitter.
Heather Murphy (46:24)
Yes. And
we still do screens, but she has to do her reading, she has to do piano, she has to do her homework. And then I just don't let her watch things like this anymore. She does not get a small tablet. She has to watch it on a TV. That's like how when we grew up, it was like over there. Yeah. I'm probably going to. Exactly. Yeah.
Challaine (46:44)
Remember our parents used to say, I don't know how old you are, I'm 39, but don't sit so close to the TV, right? And now we're seeing this. Another thing
to find peace in the family and in your life is clutter. Get rid of the crap. Clutter in your home. And if you think about Easter, birthdays, Christmases, random events, anniversaries, whatever, Valentine's Day, this just accumulation of crap.
Heather Murphy (46:59)
Yes.
Challaine (47:15)
that we get over our lives. Like, I can't work in a cluttered space, or in my home. For me personally, I decorate for Valentine's, Easter, Halloween and Christmas. And like my house is like, it's decked out, right? But once, once those are done, like, it's bare bones. It's bare bones. There's like, I don't have decoration. I'll buy plants and flowers to like,
Heather Murphy (47:15)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
I love that.
Challaine (47:45)
give it a bit of color. My walls are white. My kitchen is white and it's just like it's clean. It's pure. It's fresh and like I have nothing to dust, which is nice, right? Like this is like probably the most cluttered area in my home. Like we just, yeah. And...
Heather Murphy (47:56)
I love that.
Mm hmm. Yeah, I
think it's huge what you're saying. And there's just, there's tons of research on what clutter does to our mental health. And we are consumers. And so, being more, I can't, this goes back to like this idea of like, you being the designer of your life, you know, like part of that is looking around your home and being like,
I mean, it's easy to be like, does this work joy, know, the Marie Kondo thing where it's just like, is this contributing to your well being nourishing your authenticity, everything. So
Challaine (48:31)
Totally, yeah, yeah.
I just purged,
we just did a massive purge in our house over the weekend, my husband and I, because we watched, well he watched it first and then he's like, you should watch this. Not because I have a lot of clutter, but just to like bring some awareness to the things that I do have in my house. And it was the minimalist something on Netflix. And it was two friends and they were on like this path to minimalism. And one of the guys said, on average,
Heather Murphy (48:53)
.
Challaine (49:11)
Guess how many items we have in our home on average?
Heather Murphy (49:17)
a thousand and five that's crazy that's crazy
Challaine (49:22)
30,000 items in our home. 30,000 items in our home. So imagine
having 30,000 items in your home, like, and thinking about your home, like that's so much crap going on in your head. Like to every single fork, every spoon, every shoe, every coat, your pair of panties, all this like just crap that accumulates and...
Heather Murphy (49:46)
Yes.
Challaine (49:51)
at the end of the day, we're really just borrowing it all because we're either gonna give it away, hopefully, and it doesn't end up in the trash, or you die and it goes to your kids to deal with, right? So like, we don't know, so we don't get to take all this crap with us. So we can lighten the load in our homes where like our safe space is supposed to be and like our place of joy and peace, then...
Heather Murphy (50:04)
Which is not very nice. Yeah.
Challaine (50:19)
that like reverberates to our mental state. It has to. I feel it does because that's, I have no extra crap in my house. And I just like, I just feel lighter.
Heather Murphy (50:32)
Yeah, clear headed. You're not just, yeah, it's so true. mean, it's something I'm continually working on as well. And it's definitely challenging.
Challaine (50:39)
And it is totally a process
and to detach emotion from our items. And it was funny, like I've purged my closet like thousands of times over the years, right? But this last purge, there was two skirts in there that I have had since high school. It's 2025, I graduated in 2003.
Heather Murphy (50:52)
Yeah.
Challaine (51:05)
I've had four babies. My hips are never getting in those skirts ever again. Right. So fucking let it go. Like they're not gold skirts. My hips like the bones of my hips are going to shrink down and like just let it go, Shalane. Like let it go. Right. So my inner Elsa. man. Why do we do this to ourselves?
Heather Murphy (51:07)
Thank
you
Yeah.
Yeah, it feels good to finally do that. I still have stuff that's like super...
Yeah, it's so funny with there's certain items like that. they say, that's why they say like, don't start with like the emotional stuff, right? Like go through the junk mail first or something. Like go through your bathroom and like declutter your bathroom. But I think that it is so easy to be like, I'm gonna need this later. And then like...
It is a process, like it's okay. It's not like you're going to like do Cloning in your home one time forever for the rest of your life. Like if you have children, you know that stuff is constantly coming in and out and in and out. was like the little piece of art, all the little art projects.
Challaine (52:01)
Absolutely.
All the art projects I know. I'm thinking about
like having this emotional attachment to stuff or to our parents or to someone who has passed. Especially like with me, with my dad. I've kept a lot of his shirts and have them, they were hung up in my closet and then I took them off the hangers and then I fold them and I put them on the drawers or on the shelf. But it's still just these piles of
Heather Murphy (52:17)
Yeah.
Challaine (52:35)
clothes of my dead father rest in peace but what the fuck am I gonna do with them? I'm not gonna wear them. So what I've decided is I'm going to just have a pillowcase made of them. Right? So decrease the fabric size. I can have one pillowcase instead of, I don't know, 14 shirts. And I think that's more sentimental to me than having all these shirts that I look at. like, I should do something. Like it's just...
Heather Murphy (52:43)
Mm-hmm.
Challaine (53:04)
There's that battle, it's not a dance, right? So.
Heather Murphy (53:07)
Yes,
what a great expressive arts practice too.
Challaine (53:10)
There we go. Look at that full circle. Heather, how can...
Do you have any final thoughts? we could just go on for hours and hours. But we do need to wrap it up. Do you have any final thoughts, quotes that stand out, or just anything that you want to share to lead our listeners in the right direction, which includes how they can connect with you, which will be in the show notes. But send us off with some goodbyes.
Heather Murphy (53:20)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes, definitely. Well, I think that we touched on this quite a bit, but my biggest thing is to just encourage you to know that if you have a dream, if you're a mom that is like, still really want to do this thing, that is possible. It might not happen as fast as you want, but there are probably other moms out there doing exactly what you dream of doing. So get in their world, go follow them on social media, stalk them, find out their story, you know.
Like get that, get into that world so that you can be expanded in that way. And then the other thing is accessing a sense of safety within yourself around one, your authenticity. You know, I have this like triangle framework, which is like, love yourself, love your darkness and love your action. So when you put those three pieces together, you're integrating with all that you are.
and you are being the embodiment of the person that's living the life that you want to live. So a lot of that is just being safe with who you really are, being safe with all the dark stuff that you carry within yourself, and then taking action from that place. And so that's kind of like my process that has worked for me to design a life that I truly love.
And yeah, I have a membership that I just started, which has these like short practices that I was talking about just to like get people in there and you can get a month free to start. So people can share the link for that below because it's some weird IP address. But yeah, you can come follow me on Instagram. It's Heather Murphy underscore. That's me trying to remember which one.
Challaine (55:11)
Yeah.
Of course, of course.
That's it. Yeah.
Heather Murphy (55:31)
And then I have the podcast, that's the same on Facebook as well. I don't hang out on Facebook that much, but I have it. yeah, I have the podcast for the Love Cell podcast on Apple, Spotify, and YouTube as well. Love YouTube. So come hang out and say hi.
Challaine (55:48)
Cool. I love that. Thank you. I
just wanted to say one thing you were talking about. Time and accomplishing these goals. If we can remove ourself from the timeline and accept that the end date or the timeline generally isn't up to us. That doesn't mean quit. Doesn't mean stop. It means push harder. It means keep going.
means seek out resources, get some help, find a mentor, pause if you're overwhelmed and get back to it because chase your dreams, chase your goals, own it, love it, love your life, manifest the life that you want to create because it's possible. It's possible. Thank you, Heather, for being on the show today. what a...
Heather Murphy (56:35)
Absolutely. is. Thank you.
Challaine (56:39)
what a good conversation.
Heather Murphy (56:40)
Yeah.
Challaine (56:41)
Thank you. Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to this episode of Let's Have a Chat. And I strongly, strongly encourage you to get in touch with Heather just based off of this conversation. She's your gal. She's your gal. So as always, have the best day ever. And until next time, bye bye.
Heather Murphy (56:56)
Thank you.
Bye, thank you.